Decoding Heart Rate Variability: The Future of Health with Greg Elliott

Are you truly in control of your health?

Unlock the secrets of your well-being with Greg Elliott, a leading exercise physiologist, osteopath, and integrative health expert. 

In this episode, Greg reveals the power of heart rate variability (HRV) as a health-tracking biometric, showing why it’s hailed as the ultimate indicator of wellness. With technology making HRV more accessible than ever, Greg’s passion will inspire you to take charge of your health like never before.

We dive deep into how aligning daily habits with your health goals can produce transformative results. Greg also breaks down the potential of wearable tech to offer invaluable insights—if you know how to use them properly. 

Along the way, he debunks common myths about HRV, emphasizing its role as a continuous, non-invasive tool for optimizing health. A recent survey reveals that fitness enthusiasts value health and happiness over wealth, sparking a deeper discussion on using data for meaningful improvements.

From HRV’s early skepticism to its widespread acceptance in sports and clinical practices, Greg shares real-life stories of how monitoring this metric has transformed lives, boosting performance and longevity.

Tune in to explore how small, intentional changes can unlock massive health benefits and get a glimpse into the future of health technology, where innovation will revolutionize wellness as we know it.

Take advantage of this comprehensive guide to taking control of your health journey!

Connect with Greg at

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Chapters

• 0:08 Mind-Body Wellness Exploration
• 9:49 Understanding Heart Rate Variability
• 18:50 Wearable Technology Accuracy and Usage
• 26:48 The Evolution of Heart Rate Variability
• 30:56 Heart Rate Variability and Health
• 37:14 Biopsychosocial Model and Health Influences
• 46:24 The Future of Health Technology
• 51:29 Individual Impact and Entrepreneurial Growth
• 55:06 Health Program Launch and Lifestyle Control
• 1:03:34 Transformative Health Insights and Progress

Transcript

Dai Manuel: 0:08

Welcome back to the 2% Solution Podcast. I'm your host, I'm Manuel, and today I'm really excited to introduce not only a good friend of mine, but also just a phenomenal guest, because he's just a great resource of all things health, well-being and mindset. Our guest today is Greg Elliott, an exercise physiologist, osteopath and integrative health expert, pushing the boundaries of personalized wellness. Now, greg's not your typical health practitioner. He's harnessing the power of heart rate variability HRV is the acronym and health technologies to detect physiological changes before the symptoms even appear. Super cool.

Dai Manuel: 0:50

You've heard me on lots of past episodes talking about HRV being the biometric to rule them all. Yeah, sort of my little throwback to Lord of the Rings and Tolkien lore, but quite literally, if you had all those rings, we know there's one ring to rule them all. Well, when it comes to your biometrics, this one metric heart rate variability holy smokes, it's the one to track. Now here's the real kicker. Greg believes that the key to extending your health span. Now, health span is not the same as lifespan. Lifespan is sort of how long we live. Health span is how long we live, but live healthily. So living longer, healthier and more vitality. And he believes that it lies in your ability to understand and use your body's data.

Dai Manuel: 1:31

So, whether you're a biohacker, a fitness enthusiast, someone just looking to take control of your health, this episode's packed with insights you won't find anywhere else. Buckle up, because we're about to challenge everything you thought you knew about wellness. Welcome back to 2% Solution Podcast. As I said in the introduction, we got an amazing guest today. This is someone that I've known for a lot of years. We've got a lot of mutual friends in the fitness and wellness industries, not only in Western Canada but gosh all over the place, as we've been getting to know each other better over these last couple of years, as we've been working together on projects and some cool things.

Dai Manuel: 2:09

But Greg Elliott is honestly one of the people that introduced me to the concept of HRV, and heart rate variability has been a game changer for me, and so I'm super honored to have you here today, greg, especially to be able to pick your big brain on heart rate variability, but also all the other cool things that all of us people are doing not enough of to create the positive changes that we want to make. Welcome to the show.

Greg Elliott: 2:32

This is awesome, you know, with your enthusiasm and like just your willingness to give out information to as many people as possible to get people back healthy and active is so inspirational. I absolutely love it. So, obviously, all the work you've done congrats up to this point. I hope you can and keep going forward with everything.

Dai Manuel: 2:50

Thanks, man. I really appreciate that. And listen, dude, it's a work in progress, man, but I've watched everything that you're doing, too, online, and after these last couple of years of us working on and off together, I got to commend you. You, man, you you've been, you've done some really cool things. You've spoken at some really cool events, like especially in the longevity space, you know. And so, before we dive in today and actually this is sort of off the cuff, but, um, what is it that you're most excited about right now? Just the health and wellness industries period. Like what, what's got you excited? Because you've been a practitioner in this space for a long time, like me, we're OGs, right, we're. We're not original gangsters, we're old guys and, uh, as OGs in this space, like what is it that's got you excited today?

Greg Elliott: 3:36

Yeah, so there's two things actually. That's kind of super exciting, you know where I think the knowledge of understanding of the amount of impact that people have within their own hands to impact their health and well-being. I think their understanding of there's a lot more of control that I have. It's not so much my doctor has to do it or this person has to do is a lot of stuff can be done on my own. And that knowledge and understanding and as you get people now into to my practice or dealing people online, people are significantly more educated about what's going on with health and well-being.

Greg Elliott: 4:04

So, to be they're really a part of the process, not just being a bystander. So they're very active in their care, which is absolutely phenomenal. And something we'll dive into a little bit today is the second part. Is this the accessibility of high quality scientific data that can be done literally, have you know, from a consumer basis. You don't need a expensive laboratory, you don't need to see a medical doctor to get very high quality health related data that you really use to impact your health and well-being.

Dai Manuel: 4:33

So those are two of the big things that I see is is makes me really excited about the future. I love it. I love it. Well, we're going to have some space to talk about. You got some really cool projects on the horizon. I'd love to talk about that. We'll talk about that closer to the end today, because that really is, and everyone you're going to like this, because we've got some pretty cool stuff coming out. But he's also got some great stuff online which I'd love to be able to turn all of you on to, especially if you really like what we talked about today. You definitely want to sync up with Greg on his socials and then some Don't worry, it's all in the show notes.

Dai Manuel: 5:06

So just remember, click on the show notes. You got all Greg's contact info there. Greg, you know, before we get in, because we do talk about routine a lot and you know the importance of habits. I mean it's whatever we do regularly ultimately creates the results that we get to experience, you know, and if we don't like what we're experiencing, we should look at what we're doing to create the result, right?

Dai Manuel: 5:20

Or not doing, and I like to talk to you because I know you're also someone that's a big proponent for starting the day right. What we do when we first wake up sets the tone for the whole day, and I want to know selfishly what does your morning routine?

Greg Elliott: 5:35

look like man. It's relatively consistent over the years. Ever since college it's been what? 20 years now since being in college and 15 years of being from there, but it's been relatively consistent.

Greg Elliott: 5:46

I've always been a morning person. You know used to be six o'clock and then used to be five o'clock when I started work and now with kids I got to four o'clock. So usually my alarm is at four o'clock in the morning, getting up, which most people think that I'm crazy for doing that. But I just want to be able to make sure that I get my morning routine kind of set up and be able to ready to go. So you know, what I do is is I typically will get up and I have a list of either podcasts or lectures. I want to be able to listen into things.

Greg Elliott: 6:10

I kind of like subconsciously, kind of just be able to to go through my learning kind of hour and during that time I also kind of be able to meditate and relax and kind of like get in touch with my nervous system.

Greg Elliott: 6:20

I do some move and so three things essentially I do within the first 30 to 45 minutes is be able to educate myself, get my body moving a little bit and be able to get in touch with my body, my nervous system. It's kind of the first things that I do and then usually goes into my workout, whatever that may be, for the day where your cardiovascular or strength training. I'm luckily enough to be able to set up a nice kind of home gym so I don't have to go anywhere to go do it, so I'm able to be able to kind of have a suite of things to be able to go do at that standpoint and then right after that you started getting into my morning routine, which you know get the lunch ready for the kids, get my breakfast ready set for my wife and be able to kind of go from there. But that seems to be pretty darn consistent that my morning routine selfishly for the first time with two hours in the morning, is dedicated to me, my overall, not only physical well-being, but my mental well-being too.

Dai Manuel: 7:08

I mean that's, that's impressive. Also, I appreciate the the fact that you get up at four, man, cause I, you know people always ask me why'd you get up at that time, man. Like, I just wake up without an alarm between four and four 30. That's just like it's. It's a curse, like even last night I was up to like 11 30. Last night we had late toast, masters meeting and then just stuff afterwards helping breathe with a couple days, like it was just it was a late night for me. Normally I'm in bed, you know, asleep by night. So nine to four is pretty good. You know, I'm getting usually a good solid seven hours, maybe a little bit more, uh, but last night, dude, it was like, oh, I just wanted to sleep more, but I mean, four o'clock rolled around my eyes, I couldn't get back to sleep, it drove me nuts. So I'm, you know, I've been kind of dragging a little bit this morning. My morning routine wasn't as as diced as yours and what do?

Dai Manuel: 7:51

you say to people that are like gosh, I don't have time for two hours every morning for myself. Yeah, I mean, that does sound like a lot.

Greg Elliott: 7:57

Right, it does sound like a lot absolutely right, and that's the thing is is I value that time and I try to. I and I prioritize that Right. And so to a degree, you know, when people don't have that, their health and wellbeing may not be as as a big of a priority as they may claim that it will be right. If really you're concerned about health and wellbeing and you see what it actually takes in order to be able to do that, that's a big, large chunk of your life. To be able to do that Things, other things have to sacrifice, right. Whether it's not having that glass of wine and, you know, staying up a little bit later and watching that show, or whatever it necessarily may be, you have to be able to sacrifice those things in order for to be able to take care of yourself.

Greg Elliott: 8:31

So when people say that to me, you start to go down the road of understanding okay, well, what are your values Like? What are your values above that? Like, walk me through your day, walk me through your evening and see where these things situate and be able to say, hey, you may not have two hours, but you know what's, you know here's we have 30 minutes or 15 minutes or do something to be able to kind of start that process and because you know, as you know, the hardest thing for everybody is getting started right and be able to get, be able to remove that barrier, to start that and get the routine. If I can't do something at the end of the morning, that I can't wait to the next day to start to be able to get back to my routine again, I'll be able to go work out and do that. It's like you, you long for it.

Dai Manuel: 9:11

So it's about creating those very small little uh routines that you can do through the, through the day, wherever you start to be able to understand of of how can you deprioritize something else to prioritize your health oh man, those are like all little, uh pearls of wisdom there, you know, and I and I really do appreciate just the way that you deliver it to greg, because you're just so matter-of-factly but but very accepting at the same time. Like I, I never feel like there's ever any judgment from you.

Greg Elliott: 9:40

It's just like this is just the way it is and either you don't, it's okay, like I just, but I love that yeah, and that's but the you start to be able to lay the, lay the land over it. So you know, people have certain expectations like what are your goals right and are you doing the things to be able to achieve that? And so you know, saying you can't find a certain amount of time, people do those things like well, then you won't be able to achieve the goal so you want to be able to set out, to achieve. So we find different goals. Well, I don't want to do that goal Right, it's like that's not good enough.

Greg Elliott: 10:07

Well, then we have to have a deeper conversation. You know, what are we going to do with what's going on? Like you know, obviously, your, your lab works all out of control. Right, you're in talks about. You know there, understand whether it's small steps or big steps, and be able to have that right guide that works within you to making sure that you achieve the actual goal that you want people to achieve.

Dai Manuel: 10:33

I'm glad that we sort of segued naturally to this goal-setting conversation, because this is where the data is invaluable. This is something that we haven't had access, not as smoothly and easily and as readily available as it is today. It's never been more accessible. You know the data, the scientific data, what's going on in our bodies, and I know you're a huge data head. I don't even know how many devices you're wearing today.

Greg Elliott: 10:57

Only one right now. Only one right now.

Dai Manuel: 10:59

I remember seeing Greg one day we were at a mutual Christmas party like last year, and Greg rocks up and he's got like five different devices. He's testing them. All right, he's testing. We were part of a health tech startup together and we had to test all the, so Greg was the tester man Wearing all five of those. That was awesome, dude.

Greg Elliott: 11:18

That was too much.

Dai Manuel: 11:19

Yeah right, I was going to say way to go, iron man, but anyways, thank you for those insights because we're going to tie a bow on this a little bit later everybody. But I thought it was important to establish this morning routine, the ritual right, because I still believe that morning's the easiest time to get stuff done for ourselves and, as most financial planners and advisors and the financial gurus that are there, they always talk about, one of the biggest things to build wealth is you got to pay yourself first, and I love that's really what you're also saying, greg is you got to start your day by paying yourself first, you know, but with your health, right? Like it's funny, I surveyed. So every time I do a coach, a class, a CrossFit class or a group fitness class, I always do an icebreaker at the beginning. Ask a question, I get everybody to give an answer. Yesterday's question okay, you know what. What do you want most? Health, wealth or happiness? The answers that I got the most of, do you know which ones? They work. It was actually happiness and health which I was really happy about.

Dai Manuel: 12:21

A few people said well, you know, they're like I could go buy happiness and I could go buy my health back, and the funny thing is is I've heard that before, but it doesn't work as smoothly as people believe it to be right Like. The longer we go without doing something, the worse the problems can become. The harder to write that ship might become as well. And and I think that's where I like to take the conversation now, because you really help people better understand not only the data that they now can have access to right in their home, but actually how to implement the data, to see the changes through, and I think that's where there's that huge gap right now, and I know we've talked about this quite extensively that there's this, the idea of knowing, and then the idea of doing something to change those numbers. There's there's a disconnect. Right, it's not happening. People are love all these devices. They talk about X amount of steps today.

Dai Manuel: 13:07

Okay, great, at least they got an awareness around movement, but there's so much more than that, and so I'd like to talk to you about the one metric to rule them all heart rate variability, yeah, and for all my geek friends out there, you know I'm a, I am a nerd and I like fantasy and geek, and so, yeah, the one ring to rule them all. You know the one metric to rule them all? Yeah, I had to explain myself there because I know there's people like what are you talking about, dude? Anyways, heart rate variability, greg, take it away. What the heck is HRV?

Greg Elliott: 13:35

Yeah, most people confuse heart rate variability and heart rate. So I remember, you know, back when I first would lecture about this in various conferences, where you know people it's like, oh, I know heart rate variability and it's like it's like heart rate right and it's like well, kind of. And so they have an association where they can they understand what heart rate is Everyone's seeing. You know 150 beats per minute or you know 60 beats per minute. They have an idea of what that is. So heart rate variability goes a little bit deeper. And so, dai, how I explain this is you and I can have a resting heart rate of, say, 60 beats per minute, right, where my heart rate will say, beats like a metronome. So if you look at the time in between each beat that happens over that minute, it's on the second, every single second. It's very consistent when you may have a heart rate that fluctuates, where it kind of speeds up and then slows down. So if you look at the time, the time goes smaller and then bigger and then smaller and then bigger in between each beat.

Greg Elliott: 14:27

What people can intuitively think of saying, oh well, consistency is good, you want that kind of consistent heart rate. So low variability is good, where it's actually the opposite. So what we know through research is that overall health and well-being, both from a physical and a mental state, you actually want to have more variability of your heart rate. So this is again very counterintuitive what you think. Well, that's odd. But what this ties into, in the grand scheme of things, the more variability you have in your heart rate, the better you can adapt to all forms of stress. We can dive into some of the science, but in the grand scheme of things, that's what it boils down to is the higher amount of variability you have in a resting part rate. You can deal with stress from mental stress, physical stress, emotional stress significantly better.

Dai Manuel: 15:16

I love it. So it really is that window into our nervous system, isn't it In a big way? But understanding how to use that number, I think that's where there might be challenges, because there's a huge variety of numbers. Right, it is very subjective. I find the numbers that people get as well. So could you speak to that a little bit, Because I also know it's device dependent. Some people have different HRV measurements and how they're getting to that number. So I know there is a lot of confusion around that, especially when people start comparing notes on their HRV. I found myself, you know, having conversations with other fitness friends and we start talking about it and they're wearing a different device, so their number it just. We know we're having the same conversation, but what we're reporting doesn't compute because we're both measuring differently, you know, and so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and just maybe give us some better clarity on how this works or how do we start using this?

Greg Elliott: 16:08

yeah, so. So majority of devices now, I'd say, are kind of based on on wearable technology. So this kind of continuous monitor, whether it's from an apple watch or a boot band or an aura ring or whatever necessarily may be where it's, can you kind of get this, you know this, this passive kind of capture, you know, know, throughout the day? Primarily, I would say there's one statistic that majority of these devices measure is called root mean square of successive differences. You don't necessarily need to know the equation I don't know it off the top of my head, but it is. It just know that. That's the.

Greg Elliott: 16:36

When you see any type of research or looking at a specific HRV number, if you see RMSSD beside a value, that's typically what you would see. Apple watches, they have a measure called SDNN which is a little bit different. So that's why sometimes Apple watches are a little bit different than most other wearable products. But that seems to happen. And the reason why sometimes numbers are different between devices, it depends on their capture rate. Some does a continuous measure where every single beat is captured. Other captures every five minutes, some every ten minutes, and so it varies significantly because it's different captures and what we kind of when you see an HRV number through the day.

Greg Elliott: 17:16

That's typically what we call a nocturnal capture. So when the wearable or the technology determines that you are sleeping, it starts measuring that over that nighttime. And when you wake sleeping, it starts measuring that over that nighttime and when you wake up it stops that capture. So it averages that metric over that time, and even that can change. Some devices only take the last hour, some take the entire night, some show averages, some show the highest value. So it all depends on many different things, and so I'd say the most important thing about these wearables is keeping consistent with the wearable that you do have and that is your value. Don't compare against someone else's device or one device to the other. If you have two different ones, which I, yeah, I fall victim to uh multiple times, um, but the main thing is you keep it consistent with your device and you you use that as your HRE metric more than uh than anything else.

Dai Manuel: 18:02

I love that. Thank you for that explanation. That makes a lot more sense. And I just got to ask you cause I know you've tested pretty much all of the most current devices Like have you found that any do a better job than others? Specifically around this metric. Like again, I I know all of them are pretty good at what they do Like when, when you start spending anywhere from like 200 bucks and up, you're getting some pretty good quality based on. Today's technology was accessible, so I think it's pretty safe, you know.

Dai Manuel: 18:28

but I still notice there's a big difference and what you just said, I didn't know that there was such a difference in algorithmic, like how they use the their own internal technology and algorithms to calculate the numbers. I didn't realize there was such a difference in a variety of that. So what are your thoughts on that, Like what has been your, in your opinion, the best devices that you've found so far?

Greg Elliott: 18:50

So the devices with the wearable technology, they use a light-based sensor, right. So when you see the green light on the Apple Watch, or the red light as well, they kind of use these light-based sensors to detect the blood flow going through the vessel. So these lights kind of sense down and see when the pulse is coming through and they're using that as their kind of metric. So whatever can necessarily keep your motion down, right. So, for instance, something on the wrist if you start to be able to flex or extend your wrist and there's kind of there's space in between or there's light that kind of gets in or there's a gap, you can get some some funky numbers when it comes in into that. So something that one is the most important that limits the motion.

Greg Elliott: 19:30

So typically what this is is that the most accurate is ones that are kind of closest to the skin, that aren't susceptible to motion. So that's where ring-based wearables seem to perform a little bit better. Based upon that. That's one of the biggest things. It's not that wrist art are not great, they're good as well, but it seems that there's a lot more instances of motion artifact. And when moving around, say in bed or in activity or whatever, necessity may be that it kind of gets into there. So the accuracy can decrease depending on the individual. So there's more variability in the accuracy of wrist-based wearable devices versus more ring-based wearable devices.

Dai Manuel: 20:03

The gold standard would be yeah, what is the gold standard? I'd like to hear that.

Greg Elliott: 20:06

The gold standard would be more of an electrical signal. So this would be like you've seen those Holter monitors people wear when you go to the doctor. You kind of get a bunch of those pads and so you get the electrical activity of the heart. But obviously those devices are significantly more expensive. They're more. You know, it's hard to wear them all day and so there's a lot less use of that.

Greg Elliott: 20:24

From a consumer standpoint would be the gold standard, because it doesn't necessarily matter where you are. As long as you can pick up that electrical signal you can move around and do all types of stuff. So it's usually quite accurate. But from a consumer standpoint, from a business standpoint, it seems to be that people want one of these watches and rings in that standpoint to be significantly easier to wear all day and kind of the last piece of that one with the validity side are things that don't have a interface or a lot of usability of the device itself.

Greg Elliott: 20:53

So the more interactive you do you can have with the wearable itself, typically you cannot have the same type of data quality right or sensing, because there's battery drain through the wearable itself and your interaction with it will then cause the battery to go significantly lower. So if you have the same kind of quality sensors you would have, say, in these higher quality wearables like Oura, ring or Whoop, to a degree it seems that the battery life would be significantly lower when it comes to like Apple Watches or Garmin's, because you have that interface and that battery drain. When the technology gets to the point where those batteries can last a lot longer, you don't have to charge them every day or every few hours. Then we can be able to compare a little bit more closely.

Dai Manuel: 21:42

You're right, because I know that's the big challenge with adherence, as we noticed in the health tech startup that we were a part of. You know, like the devices that we were using initially, you know, during the testing phase, is like, yeah, you know it was funny, someone, they forgot to charge that. You know, after their night's use, come the next night they wouldn't have it on right or they forget it in the charger, like it. Just it was really hard to create that habit and consistency, you know, especially if you have that disc well, pardon the pun, but a disc.

Greg Elliott: 22:10

Yeah, and back in the day when people used to have they have to have heart rate straps to heart rate variability before the wearables.

Dai Manuel: 22:16

10 years ago. That's all I did with my clients. I got them to get a T31 strap from Polar app from polar and and then use, uh an app on the phone. Yeah, there was an HRV app which, uh, he actually, I think I learned about the app through you was the one I used for the longest time and, uh, that's all. I had my clients do everything. First thing in the morning, just test your resting heart rate and your HRV. That was it, you know.

Greg Elliott: 22:37

Yeah, the difficulty with that is it's came to a point of like, oh, I see you missed a couple of days. Like, oh yeah, I went out a couple of nights, I just didn't do morning and it's just like and that's when you have to test it though Exactly, especially after a night.

Dai Manuel: 22:47

I want those numbers, I need to know those things right.

Greg Elliott: 22:50

So this is where some of the passive capture where it comes to a degree that yes, it's not as valid when it comes to a degree you kind of create that consistency in people and be able to see these values of like hey, this is what your choices actually mean in regards to your physiology and to your nervous system.

Dai Manuel: 23:12

I was going to say, like I really love the idea of the ring, like the aura, but I train so frequently. It's that's the data I also really want. You know, as someone that's really into his fitness, my health, I like seeing the data from my workouts. I I really enjoy that, especially if it's been a longer format workout. I can see how did my heart rate, do you know, was it inconsistent? Where did I? Oh, there was that mountain. I had to go up. Oh yeah, there we go. You know what I mean. Like I I like looking at that dad, like I don't know, I just I really enjoy it. But I can also correlate a lot of things to the workout I did and you know, for I just I enjoy that and I haven't been able to find a ring I can wear and train with. Is there any out there yet? Do you know of any?

Greg Elliott: 23:53

No, not that it can be able to train with, and that's the thing is. I get the and, as every kind of person you know says, in you know any type of field, they kind of go. Well, it depends.

Dai Manuel: 24:06

Yeah.

Greg Elliott: 24:07

And so it depends on many different things, like what are you using it for, right? And so, for instance, if I had an individual that loved hiking, that was their main kind of thing. They want to kind of go up and they need to know their elevation and that type of stuff. It's like, okay, well, you know, the typical wearables aren't the best because you need to be able to track different things and have integrations with other. So it's like, well, a garment would be better for that standpoint. Yes, you may be losing a little bit of data quality from a harvey variability perspective, but you can capture all the elevation and harvey during and you can pair your harvest stuff to get it accurate, harvey like.

Greg Elliott: 24:37

So it depends on what you're doing and obviously, when it comes to more of the crossfit, it seems whoop to be seems Whoop to be the best one for those individuals because it's a very reusable band, it's pretty stretchy, you can charge and keep it on your wrist, so there's many different benefits and so it depends on what you're looking for. So, in my shoes, my main thing is obviously, when it comes to more purely health-related stuff rather than physical performance, orring seems to be the one that I like the best just because of that. That's the clientele that I see right. So it depends on where you are, because they're all of benefit in many different reasons. To me, it's just that you know the Oura Ring pairs a lot with what I do within the clinic for my population base, so then that's the one that I recommend. But again, it all depends on the individual, what their outcomes are, what their goals are and what they're going to use it for.

Dai Manuel: 25:29

It's good insight. I really appreciate that. Thank you, and yeah, I've been, so I've narrowed it between because my Apple watch kicked the bucket. Apple, if you're listening to this, I'm very disappointed in you. I'm just saying that. I'm putting that on the record, but I won't get into it. I don't want to use this as a platform to bag on Apple, because everything I use is Apple, but my fricking watch isn't anymore. Anyways, it kicked the bucket after literally one year and two days Wow.

Dai Manuel: 25:55

I didn't get the extended warranty. I'm an idiot, you know so, and they wouldn't give me any leniency. Anyways, I'm debating between the aura and the whoop right now, like those are sort of my two choices and I'm leaning more to the whoop because of the training element and I've got some friends that I train with that also wear that, and also a mutual friend of ours, spencer. You know he swears by the whoop and for those that remember Spencer, he was on an earlier episode in HRV and Greg and him know each other, practitioners at heart, they all seem to know each other here in Vancouver. So it's, I'm not part of that inner club yet, but I'll get in there eventually. But, greg, I want to ask you real quick, because I'm sure there's people listening to this that are like, yeah, whatever, it's a fad, the data is not accurate, it's erroneous, like snake oil, you know, like what do you say to that?

Greg Elliott: 26:46

Well, you know, like what do you say to that? Well, this has been around now since the 50s when it comes to the space program. I mean, this is heavily, heavily, heavily researched in regards to its validity and into what's going on. It's just the the confusion for a long period of time. Uh well, there's a few things that kind of slowed us progression. One is the fact you need expensive you know expensive equipment to be able to measure it from a scientifically valid standpoint. Right, you need ecgs at that point, or it was thousands and thousands of dollars. So they didn't necessarily see the application to the general consumer, right. So that was one of the biggest limitations from there. The second was the fact that disagreement of what the numbers actually meant.

Greg Elliott: 27:16

And so when you looked at a lot of the early data, some people were calculating the frequency domain. The frequency domain is a grand scheme of things. It looks at the wave kind of up and down of this pattern of the heart rates and it's more the visualization and the amount of frequency that these heartbeats occur, rather than what they call time domain, which everything's based on you know the milliseconds and time, and and then they had, you know, point care plots which had to do with a graph, and so there's many ways that people calculated heart rate variability. There wasn't one standard metric, like it wasn wasn't like blood pressure, which is like we know what that is. It's, you know, millimeters of mercury, 120 over 80. Like everyone had agreement, there's many ways probably they can do measure blood pressure, but that's the one in every. All the research is based upon that. So we got really confusing for a very long period of time is that, you know, some data just only measured these ones and some only measured those ones, and so it was a little bit all over the place.

Greg Elliott: 28:08

And so, as the accessibility to people to get this data from a, you know, a valid standpoint came out when it comes with heart rate straps, with polar kind of led the way with that Um, it really started to be able to take off at a lot of the communities. So this is kind of like the. The late nineties is really when it started to be able to take off. In sports, where you talk about the leading organizations over in Europe and Australia, when it comes to soccer and rugby, you were using this in the 90s and be able to capture this and they still do to this day of how much value it actually is, and now we're starting to see more of a clinical standpoint I talked about a year ago in New York at the Functional Medicine Integrative Healthcare Symposium, and there's the hoo-hoo of functional medicine. I'd probably say 50% of the doctors had an aura ring on Right and they use it within their clinical practice of what's going on, and so it's not woo-hoo. It's been around for a very long period of time.

Dai Manuel: 28:58

It's here to stay, and to me and I'll say this over and over again- I me, and I'll say this over and over again I don't know a more important biometric that you can measure to be able to impact your health, your performance and your longevity.

Greg Elliott: 29:15

Oh dear, I'm with authority. That was so good. Well, the big thing, the big thing for me, is the fact I mean, there are phenomenal markers out there. The look at this. You know. People talk about all the certain blood markers or the genetic tests, or there's you DEXA scans with, like those things. I'm like, well, how often are you doing those things?

Dai Manuel: 29:28

I do my DEXA scan twice a year, every six months.

Greg Elliott: 29:31

Right, and so I always get examples. Great, there's some blood markers. Great, when are you rechecking those blood markers that are different? Three months at the earliest, like what happens, what's actually happening and knowing. So the value of HRV is the fact that it's non-invasive, right, you don't need to prick yourself or do whatever it may be. It's non-invasive, you can capture it. It's continuous. We can get a measure all the time, and we're getting to the point where it's now a scientifically valid in regards to these numbers, like I don't know one that people can do and track on a daily basis.

Dai Manuel: 29:59

It's going to be oh, it's so true, man, and actually this is perfect for us to segue, because story time, everybody story time. Okay, because, rick, you got some great stories, uh, especially around where you really became, where this belief came from right. Like you have a very strong belief around hrv and I I love it because I feel the same way. I don't have as much history with it as you do, but there were obviously, there was a turning point there where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm going all in on this metric and I know it has to do with some of the clients that you've also supported through some huge change, but it's because you weren't able to monitor certain metrics and make certain recommendations based on those metrics. So tell us about this, because I think this is really what solidifies everything we've been talking about. This is the data in action and what happens when you get somebody that knows how to decipher that data, how quickly change is going to happen. So, I love, let's tell some stories.

Greg Elliott: 30:56

Yeah, so the first big story that I had was when I first started getting into it in 2013,. Right, so a little bit of my master's thesis was involved in non-invasive ways of measuring heart function. Hrv was a part of that. It wasn't in my thesis, but it was obviously something I researched and realizing that it was kind of utilized in more of a sports performance realm. And I met with Joel Jameson down in Spokane, washington, at that point. He's a strength conditioning coach and one of the people that brought HRV over to North America, and so I met with him and started using his system with a lot of individuals there and it was just my friends and we started tracking it, and so at that point, a lot of it was not necessarily more health related in regards to my understanding. There was some, but it was more like hey, we're going this performance route now. So I was like OK, well, I'll talk about, you know, how we could regulate training programs and all that.

Greg Elliott: 31:48

And one of the eye-opening things was an individual came in one morning and she goes hey, my HRV is really, really low today. Everything was fine, I had a good workout, everything was great, and so I was like why is my HRV low. I'm like I don't know, did you sleep wrong? Nope. Did you eat anything different? Nope. More training? Nope. Okay, maybe you're training too much? No, I had a couple off days, so nothing from a performance standpoint made sense. I'm like, well, this is really odd. It was like 50% lower than her typical value.

Dai Manuel: 32:17

Ooh, that's a big difference.

Greg Elliott: 32:19

Yeah, big time. And so I saw her really early in the morning it's like six o'clock in the morning and through the day she came to me and she's like I'm so sick I have to go home. Like I was like what, like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, like, and she went off. I'm like, well, how is the? How is hrv connected with that? Like, what is actually happening? Was that a part of what's going on?

Greg Elliott: 32:38

And that let me down the rabbit hole of like a lot of the research fundamentally was was to do with more health related stuff. And I'm like, well, that's odd. And you started to get into the whole heart math side of things, but understanding of your nervous system regulation and going back and forth. I started on my gosh, like Mike, from the complexity standpoint, like I don't know, like uh, uh, you know a poor health outcome. That's amazing.

Greg Elliott: 33:02

And so I started to dive into using heartbeat variability in a lot of different scenarios and people and they got a lot of different stories of how it necessarily impacted. So, like you know, some of the really quickly off the top of my head, some of the stories was we actually had an individual that lower heartbeat variability actually correlated with more suicidal ideation. So when she woke up to her, heartbeat variability was lower. We realized that she needed to have an intervention that moment in regards to making sure she sets a day in a more positive mindset. Right, such an amazing aspect.

Greg Elliott: 33:31

We had another person that had chronic fatigue syndrome and every single test under the sun came back absolutely completely clean and positive.

Greg Elliott: 33:39

Heart rate variability was the first one that predicted anything was wrong and if you know anything to do with heartbeat variability numbers, his heartbeat variability average was 20. Whoa, as a healthy individual in his 40s and he's like, this is the first number that gave me anything that is actually something wrong with me. So he had that validation that no, it's not just me, my body is going through something. And to be able to address those areas and to the point, I mean all the stories that can go through in regards to social health when it comes to the pandemic and measure heartbeat variability and what that did in regards to people and finally starting to be able to kind of come out of it a little bit. It's to me it's such a complete biomarker that that looks at all factors for biological, psychological and social, even even the spiritual nature of individuals and the complexity does come to the point of interpreting what that is and how to be able to create action to improve that value.

Dai Manuel: 34:32

But I think you know, what's really neat is what you're also, I think, speaking to really well right now, especially around these stories, because what I'm hearing and what I think is the most significant piece here and what I hope everybody else is reading between the lines is just understanding that this is a metric that you can monitor on your own and start to become more mindfully aware that there is a metric that has this little insight into what's going on in your body, your mind, spirit, energy, nervous system. I mean so many things and it sounds like you know these people were really. When they embrace that, it's like I am aware of this, I can see the correlation, I can feel the correlation, because there's something very different than magical that happens when we see that Right, when we have that experience ourselves, we're like now, now it's a, it's a hard rooted belief now, right, once we've had that experience and good luck trying to convince those people of anything else, you know, once we get to that point and I love that, I know that's where you have been working from, especially whenever you speak to HRV, because your passion comes through every single time and I love it. And I guess you know my question now because we now know all right, we're aware of this, we know that we have access to some basic technology, so we can now be very accountable to ourselves and start monitoring this stuff, but there's still going to be the challenge.

Dai Manuel: 35:54

What the hell does the number mean and what do I have to do to change the number right? And as much as you talked about the biopsychosocial model and you're absolutely correct, this is all part of the bigger conversation. Maybe, as you respond to this or these interventions or these different ways of influencing our HIV in a positive way, maybe think about that in the terms of biopsychosocial, because I don't know. Actually, for those that don't know, maybe first, what is biopsychosocial? What does that mean? The BPS model?

Greg Elliott: 36:24

Yeah, so when we talk about the different components of health, we know there's many different components of health, but they kind of be brought into three different categories. Which is your biological health, right, you know, how are you feeling, how is your body functioning, what is your physiology like, how strong are you? So you talk about your biological components of health, which I think we really heavily focus on right now, especially people that use these wearables. It's pretty much, hey, what's my sleep like, what's my nutrition like, what's my exercise like? So that's kind of a big focus along a lot of people that use wearable technology. The other two components aren't as talked about enough and I think the value of measuring heart rate variability is to be able to quantify these areas. And then so there's biological, then the psychological, which is obviously your mindset and your emotions around things. What is your interception like? What is your emotional regulation like? What is, you know, self-acceptance like? So all those different areas. And then we talk about the social aspects of health and well-being. We're starting to now realize, through the pandemic and now a lot of awareness around what community actually does, right, what actually having a good family, support and friends and all these things can possibly do, your environment in regards to home and work and all those things that impact in health and wellbeing.

Greg Elliott: 37:33

So all those components are super important to health and what the biopsychosocial model tries to be able to show is they're all equal. They all have gigantic impacts into your health and wellbeing. You can't separate one for the other. They all impact your health and well-being. You can't separate one for the other. They all impact your health. But you understand of, like you know, are we dealing more of the biological problem? Do you have a tumor? Do you have diabetes? Do we have some sort of illness or condition? Are you not maximizing your physiology? Is there something going on with your mindset, the way you think about things? You know your traumatic past, whatever it may be, or it's the fact that the community that you're in you don't feel supported? You feel isolated? You know you're not. You don't have a good work of life balance. All those different areas are gigantic things that impact our health and well-being and the biopsychosocial model tries to be able to explain that.

Dai Manuel: 38:18

That's great. Oh, okay, that I love. That's actually one of the best explanations I've ever heard for the BPS. So, actually one of the best explanations I've ever heard for the BPS. So thank you very much for that. Cause I just realized, you know, I was like asking questions around the BPS and I'm like I don't know if anybody knows what that is other than you, and I Thank you for that clarity there and it's super cool. Everybody.

Dai Manuel: 38:37

When you start looking at BPS and you start looking into it or, sorry, looking at your own health through those filters, it helps you really start to isolate and get a little bit more specific in the actions that you can also start to do, because now you can categorize those types of actions and figure out how does that fit into your lifestyle? I see so many people want to reinvent their lifestyle, to try to manipulate their health, and I'm like, listen, if that was going to work, you would have done it a long time ago. Let's figure out how to use what you got and work it into the plan, rather than create a whole new plan that now you have to create a whole new lifestyle around and you know, holy smokes, that's a full 180 over hard. So do you mind sharing some practical insights around the biological, the psychological and the physiological that people could start to do to manipulate or really positively influence HRV to start trending?

Greg Elliott: 39:22

Yeah, absolutely, and usually we kind of start with is is just the way that I've seen success and maybe the fact that people can see me the way that I address it is I I do try to be able to start with the biological, go to the the social and then the psychological and I'll kind of explain to the process as to why that is right. So when someone comes to me and they have a poor heart rate variability, say, it's all the metric that I currently have, right, right, and people are like you know what I just want? I want to reframe my health, I want to make sure everything's good. I have no other context. What I always start with first is like, what is their physical health like? Right? So to that point, to the standpoint, do we have someone that has diabetes, because I've run into this now does someone have cancer? Does someone have multiple sclerosis or Lyme disease or are more of a complex mental condition? That is the first and foremost thing that I want to make sure of, right, from the very fundamental perspective. So that is the biggest thing and the reason why, from that is one to the point, that's going to impact only health and well-being, but the fact is that's kind of the not the easiest but kind of the lowest amount of effort that we have to be able to put into our health and well-being. So being so, say you have diabetes, right, say we're dealing with that as we deal with other things.

Greg Elliott: 40:25

What does that come with a medication that's typically in the form of a shot. Right, you take a shot once a day. Not a long time, a lot of things to do. It's very low effort to be able to kind of create maximal change. So I'd be able to kind of start from that standpoint things that can really impact heart rate variability but take a little amount of effort to be able to do. But that's always the first thing. Making sure just general health is phenomenal. Then the next stage, you start to look at the biological and the big three that you can action are your physical activity, your nutrition and your sleep. Right, in the grand scheme of things. You know what? Does exercise take? 30 to 45 minutes, you know, say 30, be conservative. 30 minutes a day, that type of thing, it's not a big chunk, it's not a lot. You work eight hours 2% man, it's only 2%.

Greg Elliott: 41:05

Exactly, exactly.

Dai Manuel: 41:07

Whoa whoa.

Greg Elliott: 41:08

So that's and that's all you know. That's the biggest thing. You know you can make a gigantic impact with 30 minutes a day. Right, it's only 30 minutes compared to, like I said, eight hours of work and comparatively it's a little preparation of night time to make sure that that's concentrated. So there's a little amount of effort that can, that can be dealt into. That. And I say from each of those three things, when it comes to what are the big hitters to take away to improve heart rate variability, that's obviously what you know people here for is is one is to the point of improving.

Greg Elliott: 41:39

You know vo2 max is the biggest thing from a physical activity standpoint, right Now that this is purely from heart rate variability. There's other things that are just as important, but we know the correlative factors of VO2 max. Vo2 max is essentially what is your cardio respiratory fist, how good is your cardio? And so one of the fundamental things I get people to start with is what they now call zone two training, but in the grand scheme of things it used to be called long, slow distance training. There's many different names that were popularized around it all, but all that is it's about two to three hours in a week of work that you can have a conversation like this with. But your heart rates up a little bit right On an effort scale. You know you're talking about two to three on an effort scale, kind of walking around with a little bit of vigor, doing that, it seems to be the biggest amount of impact. If you're starting from nowhere, it's a great place to be able to start to kind of get that in.

Greg Elliott: 42:26

From a nutrition standpoint, you want to be sure you kind of be able to stick to the whole foods or as much as you can, possibly the 80% rule of the whole foods. I think Huberman said something to the point of like, if you stick with vegetables, fruit and meat, you're doing pretty darn good. Just try to eat those things as best you possibly can. It's very nuanced in regards to nutrition, so I don't want to butcher it as much as you possibly can, but it's that's a good place to be able to start. And then from a sleep perspective, it's about rhythm and consistency. So whether it's you know you get up at four, great, you go to bed at 10, fine, as long as you kind of keep it consistent.

Greg Elliott: 43:05

To major ones, obviously the mental and the emotional right, the mental is going to be your interpretation of um I know I skipped over social, but you know biopsychosocial model. Yeah, the psychological, the mental and the emotional component. So the mental side of things is how you interpret your, your world around you. Right, like, how do you interpret your work, how do you interpret your, your um, you know, family life and the signs of your emotional worries is obviously the feelings that you get as a result of those things. How you're dealing with those feelings and emotional areas.

Greg Elliott: 43:33

Those are very difficult. They're typically significantly more nuanced, because why are we responding that way? These take a lot more energy in order to be able to change, because it takes one quick slip up right To be able to start that negative loop cycle and to be able to be able to change. Because it takes one quick slip up right To be able to start that negative loop cycle and to be able to be able to change things. So that takes a lot longer.

Greg Elliott: 43:49

Obviously, what we know through research to best improve that is one awareness the awareness that there are minds going that way or emotions are going that way is the first and then intervene with some sort of respiration, breathing, whatever that may be. So the biggest I think the biggest thing for me is understanding of my response to things, which is typically anxiety. When I start to feel those feelings, have that stop, take a deep breath, remove myself from the conversation, right, and be able to kind of go on, just recognize that it's a very powerful tool. And the last one from social, from then again it's right. After kind of that social, that community base, what is your work environment like? What is your home environment like? And be able to establish or reestablish connections, of going to do hobbies with people and enjoy these things and going out and doing things in a very productive way, right, whether your work home friends, whatever necessary may be, to making sure that people have that support, be able to have that, be able to have that network, that that all fosters health, performance and well-being.

Dai Manuel: 44:53

So, okay, what a great answer, my goodness, and also some great insights. And in it I'm sure people listen to this, because they've listened to enough of my episodes now that, my gosh, that sounds a lot like what I always says. Those are the habits I'm constantly coming back to. Anyways, you know, like, but that's the thing about the basics they're not so basic, you know, they're really the most important aspect of just having a happy, healthy, long life. And when we have that stuff, at least in our worldview, you know it's insight or we're aware of it we can start to recognize the things that we do and how it makes the impact, or, you know, negatively or positively. And I think I love that. You really speak to the awareness piece.

Dai Manuel: 45:33

And that's where I find these devices and this kind of technology really helpful, because it's gosh, I mean, everything's going app-based now. I mean, how cool is it to be able to look at, even if it was just just once a week? Do a report. It's Sunday. How did I do this last week, whoa, I spent a lot of time sitting. You know like it's good to know. I mean, apple tells us now, and a lot of these other devices, how much screen time we're doing on their devices, right, and then it's like so anybody tells me. It's like, you know, let me take a look at your screen. And this is just your phone. By the way, you know, this is including your TV, your computers, your Tesla. You know like you see a lot of screens. So, um, you know, I'd love to ask you one thing, cause I know we're getting here close to the end and I want to be respectful of your time, greg. But also everyone's been listening and, uh, don't worry, have Greg back, because I barely scraped the tip of this iceberg.

Dai Manuel: 46:24

So if you could make one bold prediction about the future of health and wellness, what would it be?

Greg Elliott: 46:34

you'll be able to have the same accuracy of a lab test, with everything in the comfort of your own home.

Dai Manuel: 46:39

What you think that's pretty close Like. Do you think that will happen fairly soon?

Greg Elliott: 46:43

I just spent some time down in Dallas, me and Benad Onerbash, one of the physiotherapists that I work with. We spent time with Andy Galpin down in Dallas and he was updating a lot of the stuff that was coming out kind of behind the scenes with some of the technologies, and he kept saying this and it's so true when he was going through some of the stuff it's closer than you think.

Dai Manuel: 47:05

Great, I love that. I mean, how cool would that be. Also, just like I'm actually meeting with a gentleman from Toronto who's got a company that does like the lab testing at home. Lab testing is really big in the states. It's, it has, it's starting to show up in canada, but it's still not quite because of our medical system, right, like they just put a lot of red tape up which makes it a lot harder for people to even pay for medical stuff they want in canada, which it seems really weird, right, it seems weird to me.

Dai Manuel: 47:33

I want to buy it. It's my money, let me buy, like, anyways, that's, I won't go there.

Greg Elliott: 47:39

Give you a little bit of insights on that is the fact he was talking about. You know how we have the potential of non-invasive glucose monitoring right, so you don't have to put your finger anymore and that type of stuff he goes. Imagine that for everything in your blood.

Dai Manuel: 47:52

Wow, dude, that would be crazy.

Greg Elliott: 47:54

And again he said we crazy. And again he said we're not far from having that done.

Dai Manuel: 47:59

I didn't know how that would be possible. That's super cool.

Greg Elliott: 48:02

Yeah, we're getting close. We won't have to have these wearables anymore. You can literally just have a camera in your bedroom. You'll be able to measure everything as scientifically valid as you possibly can in regards to your sleep stages. You won't have to wear anything anymore. You won't have to wear anything anymore. You won't have to. Yeah, he's talking about these. You know back. You know, currently still you do VO2 Max with these.

Dai Manuel: 48:25

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Greg Elliott: 48:26

All that type of stuff. He said they are really close to launch. The companies are starting to launch. In fact, you just have to breathe on something.

Dai Manuel: 48:35

My gosh. I love it.

Greg Elliott: 48:36

Yeah, my gosh, I love it.

Greg Elliott: 48:37

Yeah, like, in regards to accessibility, this high quality information for people to be able to take over their health and well-being. It's closer than you think and so things are progressing very, very quickly, obviously, with, you know, the advances in AI that they can be able to, you know, create these algorithms and work on these projects without the manpower and significantly faster. It's just going to keep growing and growing our ability to be able to kind of get this data out there and, uh, even to a point uh, we talked about someone that I met down in in la last year where her company is continuously progressing where, through wearable technology now we can measure she's validating emotional state. We can determine if you're going through a positive or negative emotion, if it's super intense or not, and and on a continuous standpoint, so you'll be able to actually get what is my emotional state coming from a risk-based device and you'd be able to see this type of stuff. There's an amazing amount of stuff, not only from the biological standpoint, but from the psychological standpoint as well.

Dai Manuel: 49:29

It's exciting times right now. You know it really is, and I just love this because this is that piece that I really feel the world needs. You know we need to have access to this type of technology, but not just those that can afford it. Everybody needs access to this. You know, this is how we change the world, right, oh, absolutely, even as we speak.

Greg Elliott: 49:50

It's funny we're just, uh, installing an mri machine. This is the size of a garbage can, right across from me. Yeah, wait, the size of a garbage? Can it's the size of a garbage can, right across from you? Yeah, wait, the size of a garbage? Can it's the size of a garbage can? Yep, the individual itself, he's, he does dissertation on, on, uh, validating uh this type of device so you're able to get uh your wrists and elbows and ankles and knees and all that type of stuff, and it's literally the size of a little garbage can it's out there and people get it done. They're gonna say the amount of stuff that's coming out over the next little while is going to be absolutely fascinating.

Dai Manuel: 50:19

Holy smoke. I didn't even know those existed yet. I just presume MRIs need a room, you know, and a very specialized team to run it right.

Greg Elliott: 50:28

No, it's literally in a 10 by 12 room beside me, 10 feet, so it's 120 square feet.

Dai Manuel: 50:33

That it's in there and you'll have a practitioner in there with a person and all type of stuff.

Greg Elliott: 50:40

So dude that is freaking awesome.

Dai Manuel: 50:41

Yeah, wow, oh, yeah, I you know. Okay, we're getting to the end here. I would just keep going with you, greg, all day long, and I know everybody that listens to me knows that I could.

Dai Manuel: 50:49

So don't worry, I'm going to wrap it up pretty quick here, um, but I wanted to ask listen, you, like myself, have worn a lot of hats in the wellness industry, all right, and you know exercise physiologist to entrepreneur, I think how have your experiences to date really shaped your view on health and fitness? But also, like, what keeps you excited about this stuff? Keep working in this field, you know, because I think it's kind of crazy at times, right, like we just keep doing it, man, and I mean I love it, I know you love it, but I'd just love to hear from you, like, what's something like and what keeps you coming back?

Greg Elliott: 51:29

Yeah, so from a practitioner standpoint, you really kind of get that end of one understanding right Of how to be able to impact an individual from from a person's standpoint, how each individual is unique in their own standpoint, how you have to be able to address them or deal with certain issues and and how to, you know, talk with them. So you learn a lot about, about really how to to help people on an individual basis, right to drive the most, about impact what they're looking for, what they're not looking for, right to really kind of make that uh and really to be able to kind of guide them in the direction where they need to be guided, which is why, you know, having a, you know surround myself with a team of practitioners Like I never envisioned myself being a solo person, that I solve everything I knew very early on that that was never going to be the case. I need people around me, practitioners from many different areas that wear many different hats, and just everyone collective kind of work together as a big thing, which is kind of frame me from a clinical standpoint. You have success with the individual and I think the entrepreneur side of things really is to understand of like well, how can this thought process be able to scale to other people? How can we make the most amount of impact? What are we commonalities?

Greg Elliott: 52:31

If we find it we can be able to put out there that people would be able to want to listen to and be able to drive a significant amount of impact on their own right, be able to have not just one person, be able to help a thousand people and so, having both of those hats on, and be able to say, well then, how do we go from one in this scenario to five? Like, can we be able to have the systems in place that we have with one to five, five to 10, 10 to a hundred and be able to kind of go forward with that? So we kind of laid out this process of like how can we maximize the impact that we have on an individual with the least amount of effort to have the right systems in place where we can be able to drive results? So that's kind of the biggest thing where you really dive into the current understanding of the research and where kind of that fits into this philosophy. So that's where the practitioner comes in, of staying relevant in regards to the technologies coming in.

Greg Elliott: 53:19

But then to the entrepreneur side of things. Well then, how do we incorporate this new technology, this new understanding to be able to deliver the results that we need to, and how does that situate with the consumer, with the operations, with everything? So that's where you kind of look at both hats, and so I usually kind of will shift from one to the other depending on where I am in regards to my life, but it's nice to be able to have a bunch of those mindsets. I'll never consider myself a pure, pure entrepreneur because you know, with the heart of hearts, I want to be able to have that maximum impact with that individual at that time.

Dai Manuel: 53:51

And I appreciate that. You know, like I still do, I do a fair bit of one-on-one coaching. I mean, I have to limit the amount of hours I dedicate to that, but I maintain that same set of inventory, hour-wise, every week, so I know I can make that impact in certain people's lives. And is it duplicatable? Is it scalable? Not really, you know, it really isn't, but the depth at which you can go and make a difference is huge, like it's huge, you know, and I think that's always the conundrum for us entrepreneurs is well, how can we maintain that high touch while also increasing the amount of impact? You know, and it's a conundrum, but it's one worth fighting for and figuring out.

Dai Manuel: 54:30

And uh, speaking of which, I know that's something that you're working on right now. And so you know, as we sort of segue out, I only got two questions left for you. This is uh, the second last question is you know what, what's new and exciting that you're working on? I know I've sort of got the intensity, but I know, yeah, I signed an nba, by the way, everybody, so I can't really get into it fully, but maybe you could just give us a little hint of what's coming, what you, because part of everything you've shared today, I know, is also setting you up for something that you've been working on a long time, getting near the launch, um, but it's something very specific that relates to everything that we've been talking about. Do you want to just talk about this? This, this new program, a new way of well really working with people?

Greg Elliott: 55:05

yeah, exactly. So we're kind of going through a couple pilots right now with a couple of individuals, different areas and, in very similar to what you said, people just don't have access to, to what they have in the united states, right, and so I've been doing a lot of work over the last year and a half two years really heavily in regards to how can we get access to people to a lot of these services and how to be able to be able to really help it combine what we call these biological, psychological and social aspects of well-being, to address them and be able to drive those results from an individual basis. There's companies in the States that are out there like crazy, but I think there's an absolute need in the market. In regards to Canada, you know there's nothing really happening in Ontario, there's nothing really happening in British Columbia in regards to these services. So we're starting to be able to kind of put a program together that starts to look at kind of the bigger things that we need to be able to look at in regards to health, well-being optimization for people outside of that medical system.

Greg Elliott: 55:58

You know a lot of people now we have private healthcare clinics, but it's still very disease based people right, making sure you don't have a disease. I have many people that have gone to a lot of these private clinics that they get their blood results back. They get these scans and they go. You're great. Keep going.

Dai Manuel: 56:13

You're great.

Greg Elliott: 56:13

Yeah, we'll see you in six months. It's like that's not what I want. What can I work on, what can I do? And they go no, you're fine, like everything's good, keep doing what you're doing, right, and then you know, we get the results. Here we're kind of like my gosh. There's so many things we can be able to steer you into, right In regards to you know the specific training regimens and you need to focus on your cardiovascular.

Greg Elliott: 56:34

In regards to your more high intensity interval training, because these markers are not in the ideal state. You know your DEXA scan results and all these things. We compile this information and then, to the point of like, we deliver that and then we want to be able to kind of compare that again, creating that community of people around that area, but also have that overseer of person that makes sure that their mindset is good you know their emotional state is good and be able to drive them forward good, you know their emotional state is good to be able to drive them forward. So you got your team of people, um, that drive, not necessarily just to be, you know, not have a disease, but to the point of like, let's, let's get the most out of your body that we possibly can. Let's try to optimize these ranges specifically, tinker with these little things. So you're you're going forward and promoting it. So we're starting to be able to kind of put this together now.

Greg Elliott: 57:15

Um, we'll probably, by the time this is out, we'll probably be able to launch in the first kind of couple people we're kind of in the final stages of just the tougher one, as you know, is more the blood and the more expensive materials and costs. So we're just finalizing those. We're having our meeting next week, so we should be to the point where, you know, in the latter half of 2024 and built in 2025, we'll be able to have this program up and running. So definitely follow me to see when we start to be able to launch this stuff, because I'm super excited. I've did a lot of testing in regards to this stuff and, dave, you've been a part of some of that process of understanding of when to intervene with people, when not to, and understanding of the journey of the individual around the health journey. So, yeah, so keep an eye on that. It should be launching pretty soon. A lot of info will be coming out very soon about that.

Dai Manuel: 58:01

And best way for people to follow along is probably your Instagram account, I would imagine, and LinkedIn.

Greg Elliott: 58:05

Yeah, those are the best.

Dai Manuel: 58:06

Very prolific on both of those channels. So I do recognize that that's where you play most. And yeah, it's, and you've got great information you're constantly sharing. Greg, I really got to commend you on that. It's wonderful because for someone that's more like a layman, you know for a lot of these things I mean I'm trying to learn, but you make it more accessible to information. Just the way you can tell that you're a very good facilitator and educator but also very patient. I mean it's the dad in you, right, being a dad again you know, like it's just, it's the dad in you right being a dad again.

Dai Manuel: 58:42

You know, like it.

Dai Manuel: 58:42

just it's, it's because when you go from one kid to two kids, you, you got to develop that skill and uh, I gotta say, man, it's, uh, it's been a real pleasure having you here today. And, um, you know, uh, in closing, I I listen, I, I always love to give the guests last word, and so you know, if you can leave the listeners with one key takeaway, you know, from today's conversation, you know that's even they could start doing right away to start taking control of their own health. What would you like to leave them with?

Greg Elliott: 59:08

I think I think the biggest hurdle, I think that that people have to understand is the fact that you do have a significant amount of control in your life. Something will happen where you know you get diagnosed with cancer or you break something or whatever may be. Um, and I think a lot of that, um, you know, self-control gets removed, right, and they feel very vulnerable. At that point you say, you know I deal with that with a lot with pain. Individuals where they may have a little bit of a of a back ache and they're like, oh, I, you know, herniated disc, I need surgery, and they kind kind of goes on. It's just like no, it's a little bit of tendonitis.

Greg Elliott: 59:40

I think we're going to be okay and be able to reassure them that like, listen, like you have a lot of control, but this isn't and even it was a herniated disc. Like you have a lot of control to be with how that you, you you're not as helpless as you think that you are. Go in that spiral because everything is, you know, I think in our world now, especially you know, with the population that we deal with, things go so well for individuals and they're used to succeeding, and so when something hits them to the point where they're impacted and they feel like they have no control over it. They start to be able to go down that route. But there's so many things that people have and the one quote we were kind of talking about.

Dai Manuel: 1:00:21

You know some of the stuff is very simple and I say this a lot for people is is the recommendations I provide. I'm like listen, I know these. These recommendations are quite simple. Don't confuse simple with easy. Yeah, well said. Oh my gosh, I've said that a couple times too yeah, it's true, though it's.

Dai Manuel: 1:00:32

It's amazing how much energy we put to the things that we can't control versus actually looking at things that we do have control over. And if even we just did an 80, 20 perotis principle like 80% of our energy went to the things that we do control and 20% of the energy goes to the worrying and everything else around the things that we can't, we would probably have a well, our HIV would be different. It'd definitely be higher, um, but man, it would definitely be higher, but man. What great insight today. Thank you, greg, for coming. I know it's been a long time coming. We've been trying to do this for so long and between the two of our schedules kids, family, summer holy crap. But I'm glad because it was worth the wait. Nathan, worth the wait. This is just one of the greatest interviews yet.

Greg Elliott: 1:01:15

On the 2% Solution, I'm going to get you on the record right now will you come back again, always die for you anything, and that's the thing is is again, I hope people really value what you do and the amount of information and the effort you put in, and if people listening here don't know that the amount of preparation that die does and and the thoroughness of everything it's it is hard, you know it's second to none is, honestly, he does such a phenomenal job and I and I really um love the community that you've obviously built around you and I hope everyone definitely appreciates the amount of effort and energy that you put in to be able to deliver such unbelievable information to people.

Dai Manuel: 1:01:47

Oh, you just did my week. Oh, thanks, greg. That's gonna be my new ringtone, I think. There you go, don't let it go to my head. No, seriously, Greg, thank you so much and I'm excited, you know, once you've got the program fully launched, please let us know. Love to have you back to give us some updates on how that's going. But also, I think by that point you'll also have some other insights that you can share with us on practical tips, strategies and other ideas for optimizing our health and well-being. I love that you stress that, hey, if you need to fix something, well, we've got a medical system for that. But you want to actually get to the next level in life.

Greg Elliott: 1:02:29

Ah, great, very different lens to look at, and a lot of people are surprised when you start to be able to look at some of their data and go through those information. It's like, oh, I didn't realize that, and so very different lens, but it's a very powerful lens too.

Dai Manuel: 1:02:40

Amazing, amazing. Well, thanks again, greg, to all the listeners. I'll see you in the outro. And, greg, thanks again. Thank you, would I tell you, incredible convo today with Greg.

Dai Manuel: 1:02:56

If today's episode didn't change the way you think about your health, well, quite frankly, I don't know what will. From using heart rate variability to predict health issues before they even arise, to the importance of personalized wellness strategies, greg's approach offers a whole new perspective on optimizing your life. So remember, it's not just about living longer, it's about living better. And if you're ready to stop playing defense with your health and start taking control, I encourage you to dive deeper into Greg's work. Head over to gregelliotca to learn more, and don't forget to connect with him on Instagram and LinkedIn. I've included his links in the show notes to make it easy to get a hold of him and check out what he's doing.

Dai Manuel: 1:03:34

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the 2% Solution what he's doing. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the 2% Solution. If you found today's discussion valuable, share it with someone ready to level up their health, or maybe someone that's tracking the biometrics but aren't aware of really the power of heart rate variability yet. You could introduce them to a function that they didn't even know they had access to on their device as well. Stay tuned for more insights, because small changes can lead to massive transformations, and until next time, keep striving to be just 2% better every day. I'll catch you in the next episode.