How a Nuclear Engineer Became the Fitness World's Best Kept Secret: The Unbelievable Journey of Greg Mack

What if your fitness routine could be as meticulous and calculated as a nuclear engineering project?

Join us in this 2% Solution podcast episode as we sit down with Greg Mack, a revolutionary figure in the fitness industry with over three decades of experience.

Greg's incredible journey from serving as a Navy diver and nuclear engineer to becoming a fitness innovator is a testament to his dedication to peak physical readiness.

Greg discusses his groundbreaking "mobility profiling method," which bridges the gap between exercise rehabilitation and medical fitness.

Discover how his engineering background inspired a data-driven approach to assessing physical capabilities and limitations, creating tailored rehab programs that integrate fitness with medical needs.

Through compelling stories, such as his work with a 73-year-old golfer with a severe shoulder injury, Greg reveals the importance of understanding the body as an interconnected system rather than focusing on isolated areas.

We also explore the critical role of trainers in addressing mental barriers and boosting confidence, especially among elderly clients. Greg emphasizes the necessity of continuous education for fitness professionals to stay updated with the latest scientific research.

Tune in to learn how precision movement assessments, personalized fitness plans, and a holistic view of the body can revolutionize how we approach health and wellness.

This episode promises to provide valuable insights for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of medical fitness and exercise rehabilitation.

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Transcript

Dai Manuel: 0:08

Hey everyone, welcome back to another 2% Solution podcast episode. Today we have a truly special guest, my friend Greg Mack. Greg is not just another expert in the fitness industry. In fact, he's a pioneer who has dedicated over 33 years to bridging the gap between medical fitness and traditional exercise. His unique background in nuclear engineering and passion for fitness led him to create the mobility profiling method, literally a game changer in exercise rehabilitation.

Dai Manuel: 0:42

If you've ever struggled with chronic pain or physical limitations or want to understand how to optimize your body's performance, this episode is for you. Stick around, because Greg's insights can be the key to unlocking your full potential. And remember, if you love what you hear, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with your friends. All right enough with that, let's dive in. Hey everybody, welcome back to the 2% Solution. I'm stoked to be introducing and hosting today Greg Mack. Greg Mack, like myself, another OG of the fitness space, and when I say OG, I'm not referring to the original gangsters, but the old guys of the fitness industry or old gals. But uh, as you know, I had Mike Kelly on the show, uh, about a month ago. He's been in the industry 40 plus years, tommy Europe for over 25 years. And and now, greg, how long have you been in this space?

Greg Mack: 1:42

33 years now. I think something like that dude. Well, welcome greg thank you, I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to it.

Dai Manuel: 1:52

Well you know what I think one of the best questions to start with, because I know you have such a diverse background and these 33 years of venturing into the space didn't necessarily start from uh, from an origin that I think a lot of people would presume that someone in the fitness space with your sort of credential of an experience would have started from. And what I mean by that is like could you share with us what basically sparked your interest in that intersection between engineering and fitness, because I think it's just fascinating.

Greg Mack: 2:21

Get away, let's start there. Yeah, that's a long story. How much time do we have? Right, the reader's digest version. Um, yeah, I mean I, you know I've been in athletics my whole life as a kid. You know softball and football and baseball, and so I always loved a physical lifestyle and my you know, my father supported that and my parents so so that was great. So being physical and being active, I always did right. So that part of me was part of my nature. And then I was finishing high school and trying to figure out kind of what to do, and when I was 16, my father and mother bought me a scuba diving certification for my birthday. So I got certified as a scuba diver and I really I liked that a lot and was fortunate.

Greg Mack: 3:10

One of my best friends in high school's father owned a dive shop in the Cayman Islands. So you know, I worked, uh, I worked down there for a summer and went down there several times and really got hooked on that. So I started thinking, okay, maybe there's something in the water or some kind of water-based thing that I can do. Um, you know, the uh school counselors were telling me like my general aptitude seemed to be in engineering and I should go into that. And so, you know, after high school I went into a high school university as an undergrad in mechanical engineering, but still had always in the back of my mind you know, what can I do with the diving thing? Right, I thought about maybe commercial diver, um, and started looking around, you know, while I was still in school, to commercial diving programs and there really wasn't any very many that we could find, and I think it was my father. He recommended maybe I could talk to the Navy recruiter because they had programs for all that stuff and and so I was just finished, on my freshman year I think, and I went to the recruiter and you know, they interviewed me and they gave me a test and I tested, I guess really high on the score, and they said, okay, you know, we have an engineering program, um, you can get into, we'll pay for your school and you can also get into diving, right. So I thought, oh, it seems like a no kind of a no-brainer.

Greg Mack: 4:29

So I decided to, you know, leave Ohio State University and I enrolled in the Navy's program, signed a contract with them and graduated eventually from their nuclear engineering school with an emphasis in mechanical engineering, and worked on board a fast attack nuclear submarine in the operating and maintaining the primary power plant, and all submarines uh have two navy divers. So there was a slot open. So I, you know, requested the slot to go to school and I went to school and I graduated from that program and and so, um, I was a navy diver and you know, working as an engineer in the engineering department on nuclear fast tech submarines and the thing about that is, you know, all military branches have annual physical readiness requirements, right, I mean, everybody's got to be kind of minimum run or pushups or something. But as a Navy diver you know that specialty certification which I worked really hard to earn, right, you get a pin on your chest and you walk around base and everybody knows you know you're a diver and you know it was an elite thing and I was real proud of that. But I had to stay in shape professionally now because I had to meet regular requirements or I might lose my qualifications. So now I'm really taking exercise seriously. I might lose my qualification. So now I'm really taking exercise seriously. And you know what's great about the military is they have very well established intramural sports programs.

Greg Mack: 5:51

So there was a bunch of my shit. Mates and I. We were on basketball teams and softball and rugby and we played all that stuff Worked out. Actually. We were featured in 1986 in Muscle and Fitness Magazine. They did a little spot on us. We were featured in 1986 in Muscle and Fitness Magazine. They did a little spot on us. We had Joe Weider-Weitz in the engineering room.

Greg Mack: 6:11

We'd work out at the and they thought that was cool and the little spot we call our gym the House of Steel, oh, so, yeah, so, working out the whole time and trying to figure out, okay, you know what am I going to do? And and, uh, while I was still in the service, um, staying in shape and doing all this, some of the guys that you know would fail their annual requirements. Uh, the runs and the pushups and stuff were forced into remedial um, three times a week training, maybe they didn't like it. So they started asking me and you know my buddies, you know how do we stay in shape and what do we do.

Greg Mack: 6:48

And now I'm in Hawaii at the time. So, um, we're ordering weight belts and gloves and desiccated liver and protein shakes, you know, and resell, resell them. And so, next thing, you know, I got a little business on the side right and I'm like holy mackerel, this is crazy. I kind of got the entrepreneurial bug and so now I'm really wondering you know, what should I do here? I really enjoyed that part of it. You know engineering brutal at sea, hard hours, hard work you know tough. It just wasn't for me and I decided to, you know, get out of the service and figure out how to pursue a career in.

Dai Manuel: 7:27

Logistics. Okay, you didn't have Amazon back then, man, so, uh, what were you doing, like? I just wanted to understand, how were you bringing all these products into Hawaii?

Greg Mack: 7:36

Like we hooked up with a company called street systems at the time this is 1986 and around in there and and they would wholesale and we'd wholesale, wholesale to us. We would just buy it in bulk, yeah, and fill up our apartments with all this stuff and just resell it. You know it was easy, yeah, so um it was pretty.

Dai Manuel: 7:56

You were the original liver king.

Greg Mack: 7:58

Yeah, that's it. That's, that was me. Uh, you know, walking around without my shirt, I'd bring my chains around my neck. You don't need any raw liver. No raw liver.

Dai Manuel: 8:13

Desiccated liver only at Philporn. That's all right. So then what happened? So you left the service. Was this retail or sort of a wholesale?

Greg Mack: 8:24

endeavor. Oh, I got a job at a Nautilus franchise here in Columbus, you know, and, and so was working there and trying to figure out where to go. Should I go back to school, you know, you know, or what? And then, so this was 1988, around in there something, and, uh, I heard about american council and exercise had just come out with a personal training certification and so I thought, oh, okay, well, certification sounds good, I'll go back to school, you know, for four years and spend 80 grand or whatever. So, um, so yeah, I took the ace personal trainer exam and, um, that, certified as a trainer, working in the gym and and worked, uh, worked my way up to general manager after you know, a year or two.

Greg Mack: 9:09

And then I was at a health fair and ran into a chiropractor there who was very progressive and forward thinking. We started talking and he liked kind of where I was coming from and he hired me to work in his chiropractic office. So, um, wow, so I had kind of the traditional exercise fitness um, experience. And then, you know, working in the kind of a clinical setting, and we set up, you know, rehab. We had a full selectorized gym and we were doing exercise rehab there and he's sending me to all these chiropractic rehab workshops and seminars. Dr Christensen at the time was the hot name, and so I started learning about all that stuff that side of it, and yeah. So that's kind of the rough sketch of how I decided to get started. He ended up closing his practice and I said, all right, I'm going to business by myself, and all the patients that I was working with came with me and I opened a personal training practice at a local gym.

Dai Manuel: 10:09

Gary, I mean this is amazing, because I also know this set you up for what you're doing now, many years later and and I guess. But before we get to that point, I'd love to zone in on this because I think exercise rehab especially when you were talking about and introducing this, it was a very novel concept. I mean it was we sort of knew that you could do things to sort of get your strength back. I mean, rehabilitation is not a new concept, but the way that you incorporated your background with fitness, nutrition, training, coaching, but then also put that emphasis into a clinic setting where you can work with people in a rehab to get them back to thriving, and I'm wondering what was it that attracted you to that specific niche Cause I don't know, do you recognize that as a niche right?

Greg Mack: 10:50

Oh, absolutely yeah, so this was medical fitness before it was medical fitness right, really it was right.

Dai Manuel: 10:55

Yes.

Greg Mack: 10:55

So, so, uh, probably. Let's see, two or three things happened while I was working at the model center, um, and while I was working at the Nautilus Center, one of the members would come in and he was in a wheelchair and the owner would literally lift him up and put him in the Nautilus machines and he would work out. And you know, up to that point I'd only been exercising around able-bodied people in a sense right, so I'd never seen anybody with significant physical handicap working out. And so I was amazed by this. I was like, wow, this is great, and I could tell he loved it and it was helping him, and I thought, well, that's very interesting.

Greg Mack: 11:30

And then, when I went to the second annual personal training summit in DC, that idea put together, I attended a workshop by Jeff Bensky and I guess he's a psychologist, I think at one of the big IBD schools at the time, and he was presenting some demographic research he was doing on what the upcoming baby boomers wanted from exercise and medicine, and it was clear they wanted a coordinated, collaborative effort between exercise people and medical people. So in my naivete then I thought, well, that makes sense, we're dealing with the physical body and I'm not a doctor and I'm working in a chiropractic clinic so I can kind of see, yeah, okay, there's a complimentary thing here potentially. And so that was kind of the second big thing. That kind of went oh, wow, this kind of medical rehab fitness exercise thing, that kind of went. Oh, wow, this kind of medical rehab fitness exercise thing, that's cool Possibility.

Greg Mack: 12:32

And then I got hired by the chiropractor where now I'm actually in a clinical setting dealing with, you know, mainly musculoskeletal problems, and I could see that, oh, exercise could help these folks. But the people who were not exercising, you know, we would see them exacerbate their conditions and they'd come back in and they'd have the same problem. And and so I'm like, okay, this is a real, a real need here. Because you know, at that time I'm still a power lifting, you know, working out with these maniacs from Westside Barbell Club and doing crazy man, yeah, squats and lifts, you know, and getting as big as a house, hit, toss a car and press, you know, a bus, all this stuff, you know.

Greg Mack: 13:14

So you know I'm starting to get hurt, you know. So so I'm like, okay, I wrote a business plan called Physicians Fitness to try to figure out, okay, how do I get the medical community and the fitness community to actually really cooperate with each other, not just give each other lip service. So I wrote a business plan, raised some money and got some contracts with some PT clinics chiropractic clinics worked in a hospital setting was working out of managing three or four world gym personal training programs with my partner, so we were just doing it.

Dai Manuel: 13:49

That's wild. And so where did this mobility profiling method come into play? Because I think that's such a unique and it's obviously your engineering mind helped. Yeah, that's what that is right.

Greg Mack: 14:00

So right away I knew I'm dealing with a complex system. So I'm used to operating a complicated system. A nuclear power plant's a complicated system, not even close to as complicated as a human body. But you know, if I'm a systems guy I'm thinking about operating systems and maintaining systems.

Greg Mack: 14:16

So very early on I'm building data collection processes so that I can figure out, okay, what is going on with this person, even though they're in there for back pain or something, I've got to know what the rest of them is like. So I started to develop that process very early data collection and then kind of figuring out how to model the data I had so I could get a 30,000-foot view of the system and its historical injury and disease history and how that might be impacting it today and what their current symptoms are and what they want to do with their system. So you know that's really how that, folded in around the world, is a system of assessment, data collection, of modeling, modeling that data and coming up with critical. You know decisions about, you know where to enter, where to start, what to do, um, and go from there.

Dai Manuel: 15:15

so, yeah, that's uh, it's been 30 years and plus in the mentioning of that as I love this, I mean I I'm just so amazed because it's also I know you've really put a lot to move our industry forward and and still in the whole scheme of industries.

Dai Manuel: 15:30

It's a very young industry, it's so in through 50, right, and so there's lots of room for maturity and growth and and really more integration into other sort of um, complementary industry, and I know that's something that you do very well. And I'm just wondering, though, for those that are listening they're like okay, mobility profiling method, what the hell is that? You know? So we had to explain that in a simple sentence. But, more importantly, I think a lot of people are used to fitness assessments. You know, if you've gone to a personal trainer for the first time or joined a gym, or you know there's all sorts of different assessments for people's fitness, but yours is very different.

Dai Manuel: 16:06

I'm wondering if you could also explain sort of the differences of those, because I, you know, I want people to be more aware of this, because I think it is much more relevant and, you know, puts things in a much better perspective, especially for people like myself. I live with the chronic autoimmune disease and it does have physical symptoms with it, you know, and I've never had someone actually dive deep with me on some of that to help me adapt my training modalities to deal with those when I have those flare-ups. So I see yours being a wonderful way of this profiling to give a better solution. So please just explain that, greg. I'd love to hear that.

Greg Mack: 16:40

Yeah, it's different about how we approach this, even though we build the data set and structure it on a literally two-dimensional form and put all this stuff on there so you can see where there's asymmetries and range and strength and where the symptoms are and where the injuries are, so you can get a lay of the land. But it's the thinking, it's the philosophical construct, how we think about the data, that is fundamentally different. Because you know, you're right, there's lots of fitness assessments out there and so you know, what I noticed early on was a lot of these fitness assessments made some massive assumptions about the capabilities of, you know, of the person. Right, like you're like, wait a second, I'm not sure they can even sit down and you want them to do a what? A sit and reach and their back hurts and their shoulder hurts and you want them to do how many back squats? You know what are you doing. And so I realized, wait a minute, we have to back up here a little bit and get a better, a real sense of what their current system is capable of with the least amount of risk in the assessment process, and mitigate that risk and then find the weak links and the vulnerabilities, shore those up. So then we can add more, you know, riskier, if you want to call them that, from a mechanical, torque, metabolic demand perspective. So they could, you know, get those assessments, you know more, more safely.

Greg Mack: 18:06

We have a second phase to what we do as well, that we prepare people for, because, even though most people come to us because they've had, you know, significant, chronic, you know issues with the way their body works, and the traditional approaches aren't working, and we take a list, such a holistic systems approach, um, we start there and we move people towards kind of the more okay, sub max stress task. Let's build a target training zone for you, you know, let's do arm curls and shoulder presses and see there's any differences in endurance or fatigue or how many reps you can do, which shows actually other problems sometimes. But yeah, we're always moving people from a dysfunctional state, if you will, or a state that's really not ready for open up the game plan and run all the plays you want on it and get ready for that, even in the face of diseases that may need to be managed along the way. Right, so that that's the, that's the population that I, that I can see was significantly underserved, almost all of the franchises. You know, all the fitness assessments were kind of based on you're already healthy, so let's go.

Greg Mack: 19:24

And I'm like, well, who's dealing with all the unhealthy people? And it's well, medicine. But medicine says well, we're done. You know, we've given you, we've given you the drugs, we've done the diagnostic test. Um, you had the surgery or not, and your insurance ran out. So good luck. Oh, and yeah, that's terrible Right. Oh, and yeah, that's terrible right, and, and so, um, my idea was all right. Let me bring exercise and fitness into medical settings. Try to try to capture folks there while they're in that stages of change. You know, theory model right, where they go to um, actually thinking about doing something they normally wouldn't do. You know, and and know commercial gyms are very intimidating places, man. I mean, these places are. You know, if you've got a fused cervical spine and you have an autoimmune disease and a replaced left knee and you're diabetic and you're 50 years old, you know we walk into that place. You're, it's scary, you know, um, and so I wanted to help um that population as much as I could, and, and that's what I've been doing ever since.

Dai Manuel: 20:30

I love it, greg, and I mean I hate to say this, but, um, the population that you serve hasn't shrunk. No, it's probably massive. It is massive and it's unfortunate, you know, um, because it says a lot about today's day and age, especially in developed countries like north america. Some of the challenges we're facing, you know, and I know, the pandemic exasperated a lot of of that and some of those systems and and just people's health mentally, physically, emotionally, right. So, um, I appreciate what you put together and I think you know I always like to put things into context and it's I know you've been serving and helping a lot of different types of people with various levels of dysfunction and disease and I guess you know what are some of the most memorable stories that are in your mind. You know where you've seen this system impact people positively.

Greg Mack: 21:22

Oh, wow, I, yeah, fortunately, many, many stories about folks who had significant, um, health and disease and physical limitations who, uh, who, um, you know, over time, with commitment and and you know the tedious strategies and tactics that we use uh kind of rebuilt, remodeled their capabilities and were able to go on to do amazing things hiking in the mountains, and they never thought they would. I mean, I had an 80-year-old lady with two total knees I think she had a replaced shoulder, you know arthritis in her spine and her ankles and I mean we got her to the point where she's kneeling on swiss balls and doing dumbbell presses and you know she's pushed, doing push you know strict military push-ups and quads. I it was unbelievable to me, you know, it's just like what man I mean. Yeah, you know, you know, the amazing thing about the body is it's. It's, if you give it the right stimulus at the right dose, it will remodel and improve itself. Right, that make it a little trickier to to figure out. Okay, what do I got to do here to get somebody so that they can open the playbook up and engage in any kind of physical thing that they want to do? So, yeah, that's one story, um, I can't tell you how many people we plucked off the surgeon's table. You know, um, where they were, they were going to surgery and, um, we got them. We got them off the surgeon's table.

Greg Mack: 23:06

I got a guy right now he's 73 years old, um, his supraspinatus and supraspinatus is torn off the ball. He does not, it is not attached to his humerus, um, they're retracted. And, uh, he went to the. He went to a surgeon and the surgeon said he goes, I can't do surgery, your shoulder is so high functioning I. He goes, I can't do, sir, your shoulder's so high functioning, I would make it worse. I mean, he's swinging a golf club at 73. He can drive the ball 270, 275. No pain, nothing.

Greg Mack: 23:37

Now, that took some time to solve that problem and he had other injuries. He had to deal with hand injuries and nerve transplants and muscles moved because of hand fractures and all kinds of other problems. But you know, that's the thing. If you're looking at the body systemically and realizing it has a system which, by definition, is interdependent, interconnecting, interacting, that means any part can affect another part that you might not think is possible Then you know that old injury to their right hand is messing up their neck, um, and their left hip, and it absolutely can, and so.

Greg Mack: 24:13

But unless you have the, the process and the tools to collect the data and even begin to build and see those relationships, you have no idea. You just have no idea and you just think, let's go, cause most people when they present right, they look fine on the outside, yes, but when you actually start asking them questions, you realize, oh wait, a second, you've had a lot of injuries, man. I mean, you've got a couple diseases here, and we often find diseases that are undiagnosed. You know that need to see medical care that are undiagnosed. You know that need to see medical care. So, yeah, we're really trying to be that bridge between those two groups.

Dai Manuel: 24:54

And I think you're doing a wonderful job of it. And also, greg, I know a lot of what we're talking about are like sort of physical things that people can commit to doing, but I know there's always a mental barrier that sort of holds people back from either taking action or implementing consistent action or just even having enough self-belief or hope that they can overcome some of these mobility or physical ailments. Right, and, and I'm curious, I know I've heard you reference this idea of a body view and I'm wondering how does the body fuel a view, influence their health and wellness decisions, and specifically around fitness too? Right? What do you mean by that whole perspective? Because I see that as being very much a mental component, right?

Greg Mack: 25:32

Yes, I mean, you know. So I have a body view as a practitioner, what I think the body is and and, uh, you know, obviously the individual may have an unconscious notion of how what they think their body is is. Um, most folks take their body quite for granted until something's wrong wrong with it. Um, since I'm looking at it as an informational system, um, most are not looking at it that way, they're just looking at it as my.

Greg Mack: 25:59

My elbow hurts right here, and I call it localism. It's one of the, you know, prevailing body views that exist. You know fabricism, mechanicalism, there's several of them. Localism is one of the predominant ones, so my elbow hurts here. The problem must be here, all the treatment must be here, right, so everything's here, here, here here, and so that's generally what people think, or they're just told that that's just the way it is and there's really no change in it, and they just feel like they're stuck.

Greg Mack: 26:42

Assessments to try to get a sense of, you know, how they feel about their issues and what their emotional, psychological connections are to their physical limitations. I just did a consult today with a 76-year-old, you know, female, with multiple, multiple traumas and issues, and she's falling more recently. She feels unsafe, she doesn't feel safe anymore. So this is a big problem, you know, if she feels unsafe and here we are giving her, you know, these torque problems to deal with, right, and she doesn't feel safe using her body, uh, you better know that as a trainer, you better know that, um, and so that helps us in the communication process, um, and it helps us cue in on what she really wants, which is to what feel less fear, so it really has nothing to do with it.

Greg Mack: 27:39

You know that she can squat or do 40 open, open back squats, that she can along with you know some crazy thing over her head down the street or whatever. Those are incidental. What I have to know is she really wants, is you know, to remove this fear? And so, as I work with her, I'm constantly are you feeling less fearful? That's what I have to be asking her. Right, and once someone knows that I'm connected to that and that's what. That's what I know them about that and that's why we're doing this. Things just sail along a whole lot better.

Dai Manuel: 28:12

That's so intuitive but also not common. Um, just in my own experience, unfortunate, yeah, unfortunate, yeah, but I do know that you put a lot of time into developing other trainers and health professionals. Today, because you've recognized there's a big industry gap, and I wonder can you speak to that gap and just how do you, you know, really bringing that gap closer together, closing gap?

Greg Mack: 28:38

yeah. So, yeah, it's again this, this idea of body view or what the body is, you know. Know, right now, you know, the predominant, next to localism, the predominant body view is functionalism, and that comes with a lot of pros and cons and potentials and limitations associated with it. And so what I'm trying to get folks to understand is that it's a system that's processing information, and the quality of that information and how well it can manage that and govern it is really the key. And the question is, how good are you at finding out where there's information problems? And information problems tend to demonstrate as what we call low quality motor output they can't access a particular part of their system.

Greg Mack: 29:30

So in engineering, you know, we use the word stability in a very specific way. It's thrown around in the exercise and fitness world. It could mean any number of crazy things, but in engineering, stability is a very specific concept associated with what a system does when it's perturbed. And once a system's perturbed and we watch it respond to that perturbation, well now we can know something about. Right, did it react and recover? Did it not react and keep going in the direction that was perturbed in? Did it take too much time to recover or it didn't recover. Did it overshoot the recovery right?

Greg Mack: 30:14

So we're taking that idea of stability and assessing that and assigning that to the idea of movement quality, and so we use perturbing things a lot to get a sense of control, and so we find control problems based on the inability to respond to perturbations properly, combined with sensations and other information. Now we can zero in on where the system's having some issues and then the exercise prescriptions can be much more focused and specific to try to shore that up and restore that access, so then they can use it in a more diverse and variety of ways. I love that.

Dai Manuel: 31:00

And back to how you're supporting trainers. Now adopt some of these, I guess I would call it. I mean, it's very much a perspective, but more importantly, it's also a system. Yeah, One thing to have a perspective, but without the system, I mean, come on.

Greg Mack: 31:13

Yeah, no, yeah, it's definitely a philosophical construct with specific methodological approaches that grow out of the philosophy. So I've worked very hard to try to make sure these things are internally coherent, um, versus just spouting, waxing philosophical for the sake of that. Well, why are you doing you know? Why are you doing that, you know? And when I ask people why they do stuff, most of the time they have no idea why they're doing it. It's because someone else, you know, it's because that's what my boss does, I, you know, that's what I read in the book and it's kind of like well, wait a second, and you have to think about this a little bit more. So it's really a thinking system.

Greg Mack: 31:54

But then you know, from their own mindset, as a practitioner, we talk about that in terms of identity and role and our practitioner's psycho-emotional perspective going into, you know, a potential relationship professionally with a complete stranger right Through. Okay, how do you talk to someone on the phone or text to start the communication process and how do you conduct your interview? And we have a particular system and a way of dealing with all of this, because it's essentially just a sequence of specific decisions that have to be made. So we use this science, uh, to teach, teach people how to, you know, move people along strategically to to that first key decision, which is you know, let's do an assessment and figure out, you know what's going on with you, um, and then, once we collect the assessment data, combine that with what we learned in the kind of the psychological, emotional interviewing process. Well, now we can make, you know, really clear and precise decisions about what to do.

Dai Manuel: 32:56

I think it's great because I mean, it takes some of the guesswork out. It's not all of it. No, yeah, yeah.

Greg Mack: 33:04

It reduces. We always have to make some assumptions and everyone's got presuppositions right and that's fine. You know whether you're aware of your assumptions. What your presuppositions are, is another matter, but you know, once you're aware of them, it's like, okay, how do these actually impact your thinking, decision-making in real time? Because for us, everybody's an N1 stud and so we're very much on board with that idea.

Greg Mack: 33:30

Not that we don't use we use a lot of research to inform our decisions. Of course you need to do that, but everybody's presenting a completely unique system, dynamic, and so you have to treat it that way. And if you're not, and you're treating everybody similarly, you're missing a whole lot. And usually what will happen to a trainer or specialist, or a therapist even, is they'll be moving along in the protocol, and this is kind of what I do with everybody, and it either will work by chance, just because exercise, you know, is so powerful. Muscles are endocrine organs, so they produce all kinds of cool chemistry to help you, so they get lucky, um, or they get hurt. They get hurt in the process, you know, and that's not cool.

Dai Manuel: 34:15

Especially when you're coming in to not get hurt but to get more resilient and strong and fix the problems Right and uh. And I can appreciate. That's also where the knowledge sets and and experience levels of trainers, coaches, practitioners, that all comes into play. And because I do recognize too, there's a continuing education process. But you know how many people are reinvesting in their education and I know that's very dependent on the individual.

Greg Mack: 34:42

Yeah, which is fine. And again, there's a place for everybody in the industry, no doubt about that. I mean, some people don. There's a place for everybody in the industry, no doubt about that. I mean, some people don't have very many issues to solve Great, you know they'll. You don't have to spend all this time and energy trying to figure out what to do, you know. So that's why I do. But, uh, there certainly are a lot, of, a lot of sleeper problems out there that show up right on their second set of hanging cleats and all of a sudden they go. Oh, something just happened to my shoulder, right? You're like what happened right.

Greg Mack: 35:15

I don't know exactly something probably was already set up in there oh, I've been there and I have done that.

Dai Manuel: 35:25

That'd be great. Ha ha, yeah and uh. But I also know it took a lot of uh, the, the, the, the, uh. They say when Humpty Dumpty falls off the wall, right, it takes all the Kingsmen and all the Kings forces to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Dai Manuel: 35:45

Well, I've I found a lot of times when I know I'm the deciding factor on whether it happens or it doesn't, because I'm the one that has to take the action. You're the problem, it's your problem, right, it's my problem, right. And that radical accountability, right, that's required to really own our own bodies, but also finding the right practitioners to support us with rehabilitation or strengthening or whatever. Our end goal is. And and and I guess you know I'd love to hear your perspective on this as we're getting near the end is what's one piece of advice you'd like to offer to somebody that might be listening to this, that's struggling, you know, to really commit to their health and fitness due to, maybe, a chronic ailment or a chronic pain or chronic condition that they feel is really, just, you know, decimating their opportunity to to lean into more of that?

Greg Mack: 36:33

well, one don't give up, right? I mean, keep searching. There's definitely a lot of practitioners from a lot of different, diverse fields and and just because two of them might have the same title does not mean that they think about the problem the same way at all, you know. So some some do, um, and if and if it's not really working for you, you know in the first, you know six, eight sessions or so you're probably in the wrong place. That don't. Don't get stuck going to a practitioner who's doing a particular modality just because you've kind of established a friendship with them and you don't want to hurt their feelings, right, because you know not really working. But keep searching, you know, for a solution or something to help you manage this, because you know you'll run into someone. But when you qualify somebody, make sure that they're willing to do, as a professional, the heavy lifting that needs to be done on the front end to figure out what's going on. If they just want to say come on in, oh, your shoulder hurts, lay down, commence rubbing.

Dai Manuel: 37:43

You know it's a little hey, my massage gun out.

Greg Mack: 37:49

You know we'll just keep doing this thing for the next six years. Um yeah, that's a problem, right? So, um yeah, that's the thing is you really want to find someone who's a professional problem solver?

Dai Manuel: 38:00

Yes, yes, that's why I love your engineer brain. This comes to this, and you and I are both friends with another guy by the name of Craig Patterson, or.

Dai Manuel: 38:08

Patty right Again. Another person that came from an engineering background that's applied it to what originally was CrossFit but now has gone into more of the functional realm of fitness, and I actually have Tom, who will be on a future episode as well. It's a nice crossover right now and I'm curious. I know there's people going to be thinking about this as they listen to our conversation today and they're going to be thinking, geez, this mobility profiling sounds like something I could use, but how do people get access to that? And what would be your, your, your advice for them to start to look or do research to maybe find someone that can support them with that?

Greg Mack: 38:44

Yeah, yeah, well, um, exercise professional education, which is the company I formed to do, to actually deliver this right For many years. You know, people were interested and they'd look and see and eventually I thought I've got to start. People want to learn how to do this. So, you know, I started teaching it to people, right, and I was teaching it live, you know, for a while. And then, right before COVID actually hit, you didn't know coven was coming, I, it was a. It was a five weekend. It's a five weekend course. It's pretty intensive, you know, it's it's 100 plus hours of initial work and then you got to study, butt off, for a while. We filmed, we videotaped the entire course live, um, and so I use that.

Greg Mack: 39:26

Now that's an online course and and so you can take the it's called the muscle system specialist course. It's online, you can access it anywhere in the world. We've had students from Portugal, spain, canada, uk, australia, all around, you know, taking the course, trying to figure out how to, how to learn this particular process. And so, yeah, you know, go to wwwexxproedcom and you know there's some free stuff there for you. You know we've got a library of stuff. You can, you know, get a free month and see all the different things we're talking about. We're definitely talking about stuff that no one else is talking about. I'll tell you that right now All the body view, the philosophy of body allostatic load, how we risk mitigate all that stuff no one's talking about that stuff at all. So if you really want something really unique and powerful and new and exciting and that works, you know, go check that out.

Dai Manuel: 40:21

I think it's great. All those links will be in the show notes as well as easily accessible. So, whether you're listening or watching this, make sure you click on the show notes is easily accessible. So, whether you're listening or watching this, make sure you click on the show notes. You're going to get great contact info to socials, but also access to to where you can find these courses and some of the free resources. And, uh, I, I just I want to say thank you, greg, you know, for everything that you're doing. It's just a, it's not only commendable, but it's very much needed for our industry to mature and grow. And, uh, I really just I'm inspired by what you're doing and I love following along on your journey. You know it's helping people, but also, selfishly speaking, as I'm aging this, is the stuff I want to know more about.

Greg Mack: 40:57

We'll have to get you hooked up with somebody who can work you up, figure out. I agree, yeah, there's a on the website. They know there's. You know, I don't know, it's relatively new. It's a hard thing to do. So there's a few dozen uh, few dozen practitioners around around the world. So or you've got you know, get you hooked up with somebody.

Dai Manuel: 41:16

I love it. Well, thank you, greg, and um, listen, it's uh, I'm really excited for people to lean into this a bit more. And and just one question. This is, more selflessly speaking, like who's best suited to do this program. You know, if they want to do the online course. Like who's it like? Do you have people just gen pop for general own knowledge and wisdom taking it, or is it mostly competition? No, it's not really built for that. Yeah.

Greg Mack: 41:39

It's interesting, you know, when I built it out, it's for someone who's been in the field for a little while. Um, they got their, you know, they got their feet wet and they've got some experience under their belt. Maybe they're getting bored, you know, taking people through weight loss programming and kind of the same stuff, um, but it's really somebody you know who likes to think and solve problems. If you like to think and you like to solve problems, um, and you're challenged by that man, you should take this course, you know. If not, you should not take this course.

Greg Mack: 42:13

Now, you know, typically, I reckon people have an undergrad or some significant experience, you know, in in actually science field or some science field, and and, um, uh, and then strong you know strong anatomy mechanics background. But I've had a couple of people that were clients of other practitioners took the course and they did pretty good, which amazed me, you know. I was like, okay, you know they had to do a lot of, you know, backfilling on on some subject matters and, man, maybe for those folks, because our philosophy is so different, it's gonna, it's gonna challenge your current understanding of what the body is for sure, and those folks didn't have a lot of baggage they had to unload about how they think about stuff. So they didn't have a lot of biases that they bought into, because this thing will undo your current biases, that's for sure.

Dai Manuel: 43:09

What do you mean? No, no pain, no gain.

Greg Mack: 43:11

Yeah.

Dai Manuel: 43:14

Veterinary old reader systems, right, like I mean. But they didn't know any better back then. But uh, it's funny, some of the old attitudes Just rub it, it'll be fun.

Greg Mack: 43:22

I mean, that's what mash, it Just mash it, it'll be great.

Dai Manuel: 43:28

Oh man, uh well, this has been just such a fun conversation and, greg, I know I could talk to you all day long. I'd love to have you back for a few trips Deep dives into the history of our industry, especially Because I know between you and I we've got some stories to tell, and I think a lot of people's perspective on the fitness industry is probably one thing, but I'll tell you once you're on the inside.

Dai Manuel: 43:50

They're different. You know, and especially living in the day of an age of smoke and mirrors, with social, it's a. It's very interesting.

Greg Mack: 43:57

It's a very.

Dai Manuel: 43:59

It's a hard landscape to get confident right, because the clarity is not there. There's so many people speaking different things, and that's why I appreciate you. Your messaging is consistent constant, but it creates results. We get results. Yeah, and that's phenomenal. And listen, greg, I give everybody, every guest, last words.

Greg Mack: 44:23

So for you, right now any words you'd like to leave with the audience before we go today. Well, I tell you, exercise, being an exercise professional, is a wonderful career. I mean you can help people in ways no other profession can. I mean really. And it's really worth it to dig in and make yourself a career profession in exercise and exercise application. You know, like Cortez did, burn your ships right, commit to it, go, because there's a lot of people that need your help in your community.

Dai Manuel: 44:54

That's very well said, greg. Thank you, man. It's a. It's been an absolute honor to have you here today. I'm looking forward to sharing your content, your links, and so be sure everyone to check out the links in the show notes. I'll have more info for you in the outro, but for now, greg, again thank. I'll have more info for you in the outro, but for now, greg, again, thank you so much for being here today.

Greg Mack: 45:11

God bless.

Dai Manuel: 45:14

Paul. See, I told you Now, was that not an awesome convo with Greg? We've explored the intricacies of the mobility profiling method, the importance of a holistic approach to fitness and the critical role of personalized exercise in managing chronic condition. Greg's journey from nuclear engineering to pioneering a new approach to fitness is, quite frankly, nothing shorter than inspiring, I mean as someone that's almost a 30-year veteran in this industry. Greg is a trailblazer, an innovator and, quite frankly, a huge mentor to people like myself and a whole lot of other people in our industry. Now some of the key takeaways from today's episode and there's four as far as I'm concerned is number one a holistic approach, understanding the body as an interconnected system, can lead to better fitness outcomes. It's all connected. Can't just look at one area and think, oh, there's the problem, we'll just fix that one area. It's like you got a bad and bunk knee. Well, let's just look at the knee. We got to look at everything. Got to look at how you walk, how you move, how you recover, et cetera, et cetera. You got to look at the whole picture.

Dai Manuel: 46:24

Number two importance of data. Collecting and analyzing data is crucial for creating compelling and personalized fitness plans. I love how Greg really hammered that home today. I'm a big fan of data, because if you can't measure it, you can't change it. Number three chronic condition management. Customized exercise programs can significantly improve the quality of life for individuals with chronic conditions. As someone that lives with a chronic autoimmune condition, I can speak to this personally. Right, if I didn't have a plan, I just were sort of wishy-washy about how I moved my body and did it. Without intentionality behind it, I know I would not be managing as well as I am, because it creates consistency, accountability, but also predictable outcomes. You put the work in, you can usually expect some good things to happen.

Dai Manuel: 47:19

Number four commitment to learning. All fitness professionals must be committed to continuous education and staying updated with the latest in fitness science. I mean, if you did all your learning only 30 years ago and never updated, well, you might still be like that dude kicking sand in the face that's thinking, oh, I'll buy some supplements, I'll get big. And if you don't remember what I'm talking about, it's like the old cartoons, right? I forget. He used to be in the muscle and fitness magazines. I think it was like Mr Atlas or something like that, but he used to have these ads and you see the little weakling right, this little toothpick of a dude getting sandkicked in his face, the muscle guy coming around saying, hey, buy my program, buy this device, buy these supplements, and you can be like me, right? Well, I'll tell you, the industry's changed a little bit, at least a little bit. But unless you're keeping up to date with all these trends, while you're doing a disservice to your potential clients and future clients, but also the people that come to you for insights, guidance and advice. Those are the four holistic approach, importance of data, chronic condition management and commitment to learning.

Dai Manuel: 48:18

Now, to learn more about Greg's work, check out his amazing website at exerciseproedcom. I've included that link in the show notes to make it super simple for you to go and check it out as well. Go check him out on social. He's always got some fun content he's putting out and they're really. If you're in this industry, you're going to love what Greg's talking about. He's always just sort of pushing the envelope with what's new and what's coming and, quite frankly, he's probably one of the most respected voices in our space. So hey, if you're not listening to it, might as well start. All links are in the show Now. If you found value in today's episode. Please subscribe and leave a five-star review and share it with someone who you believe could benefit from Greg's wisdom. Your feedback and support keep us going, so don't hesitate to let us know what you think, and thanks for tuning in to the 2% Solution Podcast. Until next time, keep striving for that 2% improvement every day, and I'm going to see you next time.